KnownHost Noob Thread

[SFT-Admin]

Hate to be a 'noob' after 15 years in the business, but here I am...

I'm coming from a FreeBSD/Apache/VPS command line background, so most of what's killing me is cPanel and various shared hosting limitations.

Rather than bother hard-working support guys with general questions, I'd like to start and re-use this thread. Hopefully it will help someone else out there as well. You cPanel gurus out there please step up!

My recent musings, in no particular order:

1) Users
a) I really dislike creating a new full-featured user for every account. Many accounts need only be assigned to an existing user. I thought the answer might be 'Addon Domains' but bam... it insists on another FTP user. Any advice?

b) Why must you create a separate FTP account to give an existing user access? It's confusing for a user to have one account for email, another for FTP.

I guess you could use the same name, but it would still be a different account, with a different password. How would the user then update the FTP account password? Does creating an FTP account come with (even if hidden) any email functionality?

c) When I set up clients, the owner was assigned the 'main account' email address. Awhile back, evidently related to the recent cPanel update, mail to all main accounts began bouncing because of the :fail: setting.

Possible workarounds:
- create a new email account with the main account's name. confusing.
- remove the :fail: setting, making the main account a catchall. Um, no.

I basically explained clients now needed a new 'primary' email address for themselves, and to use the other 'main account' for cPanel and FTP... We set up a forwarder just in case, since some had already given out the 'main account' email address.

2) more mail
Mail has been a bit of a headache since we moved in. The first client we set up immediate set up mail forwarding on their accounts. Although forwarded, it remained on the server. Although I explained that's just how it was, in reality I was also surprised it worked like that. A new, unwelcome daily task is to nag people to get the mail off the server.

The workaround seemed to be to delete the user's account, and leave the forwarder. Desired effect, but now they cant use webmail or send mail through the server. Many people would like to use webmail...

I'll cut it off for now, but I've got many more questions! Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Dan]

Hello SFT nice to meet you and welcome to Knownhost

I am sure others will have different opinions and I am looking forward to hearing from them too but here's my 2 cents worth:

1) Users
a) I really dislike creating a new full-featured user for every account. Many accounts need only be assigned to an existing user. I thought the answer might be 'Addon Domains' but bam... it insists on another FTP user. Any advice?

Well, seeing as how you are posting in the Resellers forum I am assuming you have a resellers account although I am kind of confused about what you are trying to accomplish.

I typically think of an account as it's own domain. Unless it's related to another domain and is a small site then it can be an addon domain. The reason addon domains require FTP access is because it's just that, a different domain with it's own subdirectory and a redirect if you set it up.

It kind of sounds like you're trying to set up resellers to me when you say many accounts just need to be assigned to an existing user. Having a reseller account (going from memory when I had one) you can't set up other resellers under you as you are the reseller already. Step up a little further and you can set up your own resellers and they have multiple accounts (domains) assigned to them.

b) Why must you create a separate FTP account to give an existing user access? It's confusing for a user to have one account for email, another for FTP.

I guess you could use the same name, but it would still be a different account, with a different password. How would the user then update the FTP account password? Does creating an FTP account come with (even if hidden) any email functionality?

You do not have to set up a separate FTP account. When you create a domain with a user name there is one set up already that they can access by logging in using just their user name (no @domain.com). Take a look under FTP accounts and you'll see one there with just the user name. Logging in through it will give them access to the root directory for that account and full privileges.

I, personally, do not consider the main user of an account to be a usable email address. The reason for this is that for the person to use it they have to log in differently than any other email user for that domain (again no @domain.com). Do NOT create another email with the same name, this WILL cause problems.

Think of it as the main user account has full administrative access, CPanel login, Full FTP, and SSH if you allow it. So this account is basically a superuser not a user.

c) When I set up clients, the owner was assigned the 'main account' email address. Awhile back, evidently related to the recent cPanel update, mail to all main accounts began bouncing because of the :fail: setting.

Possible workarounds:
- create a new email account with the main account's name. confusing.
- remove the :fail: setting, making the main account a catchall. Um, no.

I basically explained clients now needed a new 'primary' email address for themselves, and to use the other 'main account' for cPanel and FTP... We set up a forwarder just in case, since some had already given out the 'main account' email address.

Most of this was addressed above but, again, do not create another email using the same name this will cause problems.

If all mail is being bounced I am not so sure your forwarder is going to do anything for you. They may simply have to give people a new email address for themselves.

2) more mail
Mail has been a bit of a headache since we moved in. The first client we set up immediate set up mail forwarding on their accounts. Although forwarded, it remained on the server. Although I explained that's just how it was, in reality I was also surprised it worked like that. A new, unwelcome daily task is to nag people to get the mail off the server.

The workaround seemed to be to delete the user's account, and leave the forwarder. Desired effect, but now they cant use webmail or send mail through the server. Many people would like to use webmail...

Impose quotas on their email box and when it's full it's their problem not yours.

Email forwarders, yes that's exactly how it works. If you create a forwarder with NO email account then the email is forwarded with no trace. If there IS an email account then a copy is kept and a copy is forwarded. They can't have it both ways, if they want to be able to access their email via webmail, fine, they need more disk space...of course an upgrade purchased from you

I'll cut it off for now, but I've got many more questions! Thanks in advance for any input.

No problems come on back anytime

 

[SFT-Admin]

Hey thanks for the reply. I'll try to be brief and get right down to it.

I am assuming you have a resellers account although I am kind of confused about what you are trying to accomplish.

You assume correctly. What I'd like to accomplish is to better manage my own domains. Sure, my clients all get their own accounts, but I have countless little 'project' domain names that could all be associated with one user or account.

Addon Domains seems to be the Cpanel solution, but you *still* end up creating new usernames/passwords, plus you get that ghetto side-effect of that site being available at http://yourdomain.com/thatdomain.com or thatdomain.yourdomain.com or similar...

What I'm used to: add a virtual host. unless otherwise specified, it's files are owned by the master reseller account, no new ftp/user creation necessary.

It kind of sounds like you're trying to set up resellers to me when you say many accounts just need to be assigned to an existing user.

Totally unrelated to setting up sub-resellers.

You do not have to set up a separate FTP account. When you create a domain with a user name there is one set up already that they can access by logging in using just their user name (no @domain.com). Take a look under FTP accounts and you'll see one there with just the user name. Logging in through it will give them access to the root directory for that account and full privileges.

I'm pretty clear on all that, thanks.

I, personally, do not consider the main user of an account to be a usable email address.

I don't anymore either, it's just that it was working up to a point, then suddenly changed (along with all *kinds* of cPanel/rvskin settings). You know, you spend time editing these packages, themes, what clients are and are not supposed to see, and you wake up one morning and everything has gone insane. Go automatic update!

Email forwarders, yes that's exactly how it works. If you create a forwarder with NO email account then the email is forwarded with no trace. If there IS an email account then a copy is kept and a copy is forwarded. They can't have it both ways, if they want to be able to access their email via webmail, fine, they need more disk space...of course an upgrade purchased from you

Nah I'm not trying to sell my client additional disk space. On my other host you just added a simple virtmap or alias, and mail was forwarded, without keeping a copy. This did not prevent them from having a full-featured user account to use when they felt like it.

In a nutshell, I just don't like having 20+ little login/ftp accounts for the 20+ domains that are owned by the same human being, and even Addon Domain doesn't seem to prevent that.

Thanks again for the reply!