Complaint - Accusation

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Kayz, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. Kayz

    Kayz New Member

    To whom do I make a complaint to?

    I have been a customer with KnownHost since 2010, I have moved on from VPS to a Dedicated server.

    On the odd occasion maybe once a year I receive an abuse notification from KH abuse team regarding sites hosted on my box that have either been hacked, defaced and in it's place a phishing site is placed.

    I always respond to abuse tickets as quickly as I possibly can - fact.

    On this occasion I received a message on the 16 February 2017 03:56 PM that one of my clients sites has transformed into a phishing site. I have not logged onto the server until now and having just checked my emails I noticed that an abuse ticket has been raised.

    On 18 February 2017 11:10 AM I received another update requesting me to respond within 24 hours, again I did not see this.

    Right now I just saw the the abuse ticket (19 February 2017) I logged on to reply to the abuse ticket which I started writing, within minutes Tyler W. Abuse Supervisor writes a very demeaning response.


    Yes I understand my response is late, at the very least if you do not hear from the account holder within 24 hours you should go ahead and simply suspend the phishing account in question until the account owner or myself realises this and makes contact with KH.

    Yes i was late but i don't like being accused of something which i am completely innocent of. Why threaten a customer of 7 years on a dedicated box with entire server suspension? What explanation do you want for my lack of communication? Do you see me with my computer attached to my face!?

    Seriously this has really annoyed me. Yes I admit I saw this very late, if a customer does not respond within 24 hours KH should simply go ahead and suspend the account in question - do not threaten me with entire server suspension and especially DO NOT insult me or my integrity by saying "Is there a reason you are neglecting to address the concerns of this case".

    Is it KH responsibility to pass such judgment considering the longevity and loyalty I have been with KH?

    I have better things to do than be accused of creating Paypal phishing sites!!!!

    Any senior manager want to address this abuse ticket please do: 758725

    I admit my response was delayed but I do not appreciate being accused of something which I am wholly innocent of!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  2. KH-Jonathan

    KH-Jonathan Director of Managed Services Staff Member

    I think there's just a bit of misunderstanding here.

    This was supposed to have a question mark at the end, and wasn't meant as an accusatory question at all. Often times our customer have customers and they'll start working with them but never reply to us. It was a legitimate question for scenarios we run into in the abuse dept. a lot. In cases like Phishing and DMCAs it's very important that we get replies. We're tough on them because there are legal ramifications for us, our transit providers, our datacenters, etc. if we don't take the appropriate action. We want to make every effort to get in touch with you while doing the least-intrusive thing possible to deal with the issue without negatively impacting anything of yours.

    In this case, had we not heard back from you we would've suspended the cPanel account that runs the site.
     
  3. Kayz

    Kayz New Member

    There was no misunderstanding here Jonathan.

    I too take such abuse very seriously and have always done so. I appreciate it affects KH; it affects me too. When you set up and run such a business you should expect such things to occur as you have already mentioned so it's nothing new.

    So you admit it was a legitimate question to ask a customer who has been paying his bills since 2010 with his credit card insinuating whether he is involved in setting up a phishing website!!? Before he could even reply to the ticket!? Is this normal protocol to ask such a question, second guessing customers or accusing them of beng involved simply because they havent responded yet?

    Question or no question mark what difference does it make? I find such accusations very hurtful and very judgmental and deameaning. So according to what youre saying if one my clients has inadvertently had his website hacked this would then make KH complicit too? Would it be fair for me to accuse KH of phishin, stealing peoples Credit Card details? Do you see the point I am making and how unfair Tyler's comments are?

    I'd like to ask Tyler how he came to such a conclusion even though I had not yet responded to the ticket?

    Like KH I too have clients on the box. Anything they do is partly my responsibility and likewise Phishing websites hosted on your network is also your problem.

    Appropriate action was taken. The offending scripts were disabled righaway. You were simply waiting for my response, yet due to my lack of response I am accused of phishing and threatened.

    Precisely that is what I expected too. Then why threaten me with suspension of my entire server when you know very well there are other reseller accounts on the box with many domains? Had KH done their research you would have noticed that this was most very likely caused due to a script being exlploited. Before pointing fingers at me and accusing me and threatening me with closure.

    If "I" the bill payer was directly abusing the services then I can understand the server being suspended.

    For the past 7 years i have never experienced such a problem nor was made to feel like a criminal like KH have done.

    Pointing fingers, being so judgmental accusing me of phishing before i could even respond is not on.

    Clearly Tyler needs further customer services training and how not to judge people before they could reply to the ticket!

    So how and whom can i direct this complaint to?
     
  4. KH-Jonathan

    KH-Jonathan Director of Managed Services Staff Member

    @Kayz there was absolutely no intent/accusation made here, I promise. We do have many customers who are resellers and may have been in contact with their customer regarding the situation, or have another circumstance in which they couldn't handle it immediately. I promise there was no negative connotation :)

    That wasn't meant as a threat. It was a simple statement of our next course of action had we not heard from you. We're not always able to gain access to dedicated servers if people lock us out, so if you'd locked us out then we'd have had no choice but to suspend the whole server, primarily for legal reasons. Luckily, none of this was the case here.

    We love our customers and don't want you to think we'd ever target/accuse you. That's not the case at all ;)
     
  5. Kayz

    Kayz New Member

    Well unfortunately that's how i was made to feel being on the receiving end. Before i could provide a response i turned into a suspect and an ultimatum was given. If i was to give Tyler the benefit of the doubt i would say his choice of words were not good. He could have handled it very differently and i would not have been this annoyed.


    I don't profess to be an expert in managing servers and I am still learning.

    Can you not access sites on the server without having the root password? If Tyler was able to disable the offending scripts then surely he is able to suspend the offending account in question?

    I don't understand why it would warrant the entire server being suspended for the actions of a single domain under another users re-seller account? I have so many tickets open with the same root password which has not changed for a very long time. I doubt KH were locked out.
     
  6. KH-DanielP

    KH-DanielP KH-COO Staff Member

    @Kayz

    We do apologize that you felt that way as that's not the intent.

    With dedicated servers it is not a 100% guarantee that we can access the equipment, we do our best to access and disable the offending content if at all possible to mitigate the damages, but what we do is a triage approach to stop the immediate threat as best as possible as the individual server operator is the one that is best fit in both knowledge and expertise on how individual websites are setup and managed.

    We do have to be somewhat strict in regards to this as it can be very important to no only you and your server, but the over all health of our network. Many block lists today love to take the 'sledge hammer' approach and block not only infected servers, but IP ranges around them.

    As far as suspending the entire server, we have to make standard our policies across the board, which is why it was mentioned to you that we will suspend the account if possible, but if not possible then the server may be suspended. You'd be surprised how many times we will send notices, and update emails time and time again and get no response until a server suspension is applied. Items like this can't be left for long periods of time without being addressed for many reasons.

    One of the biggest issues we face, is that if we do not have an open line of communication with the client (in the form of a response to the abuse ticket), we will suspend the account, only to have no update and find the account unsuspended the next day. Especially if it is a reseller/resold account where the individual reseller may have permissions to unsuspend it. This inturn leads directly to a server suspension as that is our next course of action to take.

    Again, I do apologize that you felt threatened by this, as that is not our intent, but you just have to think of it in business terms. We don't issue abuse tickets to be mean, or imply/impart blame on anyone. We're simply saying that we've seen XYZ on your server, we've done XYZ to stop it but we need/require you to reply confirming you've acknowledge the problem and do XYZ to close the case out. XYZ is normally dangerous for the health of your server, as well as our network and often times it's down right illegal in one form or another so we have to get them addressed promptly.

    I hope this addresses some of your concerns and thanks for being a valuable member of the KH Family!
     
  7. phpAddict

    phpAddict Active Member

    None of my business, but as an impartial bystander I would like to show some appreciation for KH in cases like this. Thank you KH for both informing clients, that otherwise might not be aware, and quickly protecting other users on the internet.

    I wouldn't take their message as accusatory, judgmental, nor insulting, but a "there's something on your server that's very serious and you and KH could face serious legal ramifications if not quickly dealt with". Just imagine the email / letters KH gets from PayPal / legal agency's in cases like this, I'm sure they're not as friendly. Issues like this are not to be taken lightly so neither should the message. After no timely response, "Is there a reason you are neglecting to address the concerns of this case" was a legitimate question., to which your answer was "I did not see this", almost 3 days later. You expect KH to respond to your tickets quickly, I think it's only fair that they assume the same from their customers when they need their help. How would you respond to KH if they didn't respond to a ticket for 3 days?
     
    Chimpie, TMCS, MiCarl and 1 other person like this.

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